Free will is an illusion?

I see where you're coming from and I like to think and read on the topic occasionally and the thought is valid and makes sense in that free will is an illusion and incredibly difficult for anyone to think over due to its vast complexity and the fact that society as a whole thinks of itself in such an independant way, but to think about especially this sentence: "think about the first event to ever happen in existence, w/e that event is, if it were to happen an infinite amount of times under the same conditions, every single time it would to you sitting where you are reading this right now, any change in that event would produce a different chain of reactions, but it would all be predetermined by that one event."

The very first starting event to occur in a specific way to determine all the other events in existence is the essentials of a sense of "free will" It happened in its specific way to determine all things that happened deeper into the web of actions and reactions, it didn't happen any other way or in any other sense, but that would also bring up the thought of parallel dimensions or events to act in the infinite other possible ways for that initial event to happen, which in and of itself brings up hundreds of thousands of other questions and arguments that could counteract with the free will belief, but in the same token you could argue that there is no starting event, but that it is just a way for human beings to simplify the thought process down to possible logic that we can comprehend and converse to each other. With our limited knowledge being humans we can never figure out the 100% truth behind anything we concoct in our heads, but we can always wonder and think, I personally don't have a complete opinion on this subject, I don't 'not' believe in free will.

The logical conclusion considering the shear volume of past events and that no event can happen without a previously occurring event to begin it, if there is no P then there can be no Q, no chicken, thus no egg, and vice versa, so to spark the very thought of free will would be to assume that there would need to be a reason to think about it, and to think about it would also need to be a reason, and the reason being the event, a logical and rational answer to the question would be that it is an illusion, but without being all knowing as being only humans, we can't know the truth, so that would be my thought on if free will exists, a deep thought requires a deep answer I assume.

I don't see how it does not apply to Christians. Just because Christians have a firm belief in God does not necessary mean they know the details of how exactly it happens.

My speculation is, if God was to determine a script for the universe, he might let the script run like a computer program. An A.I. program which makes its own decisions - according to different conditions of the universe at the moment where decisions are necessary. That is free will as endowed (left opened) by an infinite God - therefore not predetermined at the point of creation. God could conceivably have said "no" to intervene a crashing program as he perfects it over time.

In physics, concept of determinism is the difference between Newtonian physics and Quantum physics. We may think they have little to no relationship with each other because they cover totally different scales. However, if we bridge them with Chaos theory, we realize that different out comes at atomic and molecular levels could very much be affected by those events described in the Heisenberg uncertainty principle. It is not an easy thing to understand, even Albert Einstein had difficulty accepting Quantum physics at the time it came out.

Christians could not determine for God that we have a closed finite universe. Neither could scientists observe that closed finite universe. We simply do not know with certainty, at lease not at this moment, perhaps not ever.

I agree with you for the most part, because yes there is no way for us to change what happened in the past to make what happens now happen, but we do choose to react how we do. We are not a baseball being hit, we get to think and choose how to react to each action.

I believe in free will and I am not a Christian. I'm actually very apathetic about the whole idea of existence and our purpose in life...thinking about it in my opinion seems like a great waste of time. If everything is pre-determined, why bother? It doesn't effect me either way.

I can't really argue against that...but I might interpret it differently. What if it means that everything exists at all times simultaneously? Or it might mean that there aren't any external influences on our universe....if everything is set down on a 'track' of time with only the original ingredients.

I cleave to the notion that free will is naught but an illusion...

When one is compelled to CHOOSE between right and wrong, good and evil, - then one has, indeed, demonstrated a profound lack of a 'free' will; the laws of man and the illusion of free will are intricately linked.

'Accountability', then, is the whipping-post to which our 'free will' is bound, - bound by the chains of morality, and for no other purpose than to be relentlessly flogged by the whips of our own natural instincts.

In his book, TWILIGHT OF THE IDOLS, Nietzsche addresses man's aberrance of free will when he writes:

---"... the doctrine of will has been invented essentially for the purpose of punishment, that is of FINDING GUILTY... Men were thought of as 'free' so that they could become GUILTY: consequently, every action HAD to be thought of as willed... Today,... when we immoralists especially are trying with all our might to remove the concept of guilt and the concept of punishment from the world..., there is in our eyes no more radical opposition than that of the theologians, who continue to infect the innocence of becoming with 'punishment' and 'guilt' by means of the concept of the 'moral world-order'."...---

We will never know what true 'free will' is because we are all naught but puppets made of flesh and bone, - puppets with strings made of thoughts and emotions, - and these strings are in constant manipulation by that unseen Puppetmaster known as... "GUILT".

-

I'm free to think what I want... in fact I'm free to think beyond my own comprehension, just because I must abide by patterns and rules of existence doesn't mean I am not free to roam upon it...

edit:

to me, reason and choice exsists... because we address them in every day life. Just because we pertain to a 'cause and effect' type existential process, doesn't mean free will hasn't been unfolded as a part of it.

which was will you see it? that in itself is free will... I understand your way of thought, the future is indeed a part of the past... they are one and what will happen is ready to be happened

So if I wear a pink shirt instead of a red one the world could suddenly blow up?

possibly, depends how you define ''will''.

if ''will'' is manipulating your own thoughts and body, than yes you are(under most circumstances) free to manipulate these things how you so desire. The forces compelling your desire to manipulate these things in the first place, is a whole other debate.

If it is an illusion, then people that do not realize it have no choice in the matter.